And it wasn’t – it wasn’t a – it was maybe sort of a grazing over of that area, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t how you might imagine it if someone described this, from a scene from a movie It wasn’t like that, but it was – you know I don’t even know if he remembers. I don’t think it was to necessarily gratify him or arouse him It was just playful.Q. (Juror) Were there times when the President would touch you either on the breasts or in the genital area directly to the skin or was it always through clothing?A Directly to the skin Both.Q. I – the short of it is that I didn’t end up seeing him because Evelyn Lieberman was hanging around and left with him that day.Q (Juror) She was someplace where she didn’t belong?A. He had this big 50th birthday party at Radio City Music Hall and there was a cocktail reception and at the .. when he came to do the rope line and he …

after he greeted me and talked to me, he was talking to a whole bunch of people in and around my area. I had my back to him and I just kind of put – put my hand behind me and touched him.Q Touched him in the crotch area?A Yes.Q (Juror) Did anybody see you?A No. Or I’m not – I know he had a departure and I know that I was going to see him for a few minutes before the departure because I thought – I remember thinking that I might get to kiss him, so …Q (Juror) Okay Could you tell us a little about that?A Sure. So he said, “Well, why don’t you stop by Betty’s office, stop by to see Betty and then maybe you can come see me for a few minutes before I leave.”Q Okay All right. The reason I was asking that as a follow-up is that’s sort of a prearranged semi-public occasion for the two of you to see each other.A Right. I don’t, I don’t know necessarily that I was going to go to the departure.Q I see.A But that was maybe kind of a cover story.Q I understand.A. I spoke with him – I think it was 22 October, and then I saw him at an event 23 October and he called that night and I had mentioned to him on – I think it was a Tuesday, the first phone conversation, that I was going to be at the White House on Thursday.And when he called me Wednesday night, he said – I was upset with him and so then he said, you know, “Don’t be mad Don’t be mad.” You know “Are you coming tomorrow?”And I said yes.

During the conversation before, did you and the President have any discussion about your dropping by and seeing him at a public departure?A Yes.Q All right Would you tell us about that?A Let’s see. I would go early and stand in the front so I could see him, blah, blah, blah.Q. (Prosecutor) Let me ask a follow-up question to that because I think it may have been in about October of `96 when you had a telephone conversation with him just prior to you going to Billy Shaddock to get a photograph.A Right.Q. I was insecure about the relationship at times and thought that he would come to forget me easily and if I hadn’t heard from him. Could you just tell us a little about that?A.Those were all ways for me to get a chance to see him.

I know that I suggested to the President or I, I didn’t suggest, I asked the president if Mr Jordan might be able to assist me.Q. (Juror) After you left the White House, it seems as if you attended a number of public functions where you came in contact with him. I don’t remember if it was the Wednesday or the Friday when the relationship first started, he said to me at some point, you know, “You can come see me on the weekends I’m usually around on the weekends.”Q And did you understand what that meant?A Yes. To me, it meant there aren’t as many people around on the weekends….Q.(Juror) When you first made the determination that you were moving to New York and you wanted to explore the possibilities of a job in private industry, can you recall how you first got the recommendation about Vernon Jordan’s assistance in this endeavour?A I can’t. (Prosecutor) Ms Lewinsky, with respect to the weekend visits, did the president ever initiate that idea …?A Yes The … why would you have to make prior arrangements for you to bump into each other rather than having sort of a – you know, walk down the hall together to the movie?A. For obvious reasons, I guess, because it wouldn’t be appropriate… people would wonder what was going on.Q.

(Juror) Did you ever discuss with the president whether you should deny the relationship if you were asked about it?A I think I always offered that.Q (Juror) In discussions with the president?A. in my head, I’m seeing him smile and I’m hearing him saying “That’s good,” or .. something affirmative You know Not – not “Don’t deny it.”Q. In discussions – I told him I would always – I would always deny it, I would always protect him.Q (Juror) And what did he say when you said that? …A I … So in that case, that would be a concealment effort, but not one that the President and you had collaborated on.A No.Q All right. What about an occasion when the President suggested that the two [of] you might attend a movie and sort of bump into each other outside the movie? …